Curse

Tullzinski · Feb 10, 2009, 03:01 PM // 15:01

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

I suggest you don't make an assumption about a game you never play. The reviewers may say the truth, but you may not understand it correctly because you've never really experienced it yourself so you don't know what they mean.

Case in point: "Finished the Burning Crusade Expansion"

In this case, by "finished" they mean getting into the most difficult (stat-wise) end-game raiding instance (Sunwell) and cleared the place. Raiding is designed with hardcore players in mine. Blizzard never expects every player to get to experience such places (whether this kind of design is good or bad is another story). So if you're a casual player who can play 2-4 hours per day, you won't get far in term of raiding.

Is that a bad thing? Personally I don't think it's that bad. There're more endgame content than just raiding alone. Hell, you can even get raiding-equivalent gears by just running heroic dungeons with 4 other people and collect badges (which you always get from defeating a boss. No "zomg it doesn't drop this run" dilemma like we have in GW) then trade said badges for good gears. Sure, you're missing out on raiding content, but what do you expect? You don't have the time to invest, deal with it.

I am a non-raider myself. And there're things I can do after max level.

And please don't bring up the fact that you need 25 people for raiding. There is a smaller raid group which is just 10 people. For Wrath of the Lich King, each raid instance has 2 versions; the easier, 10-man version and the hardcore, 25-man version. As I said don't talk sh*t about a game you don't really know.

10-man raid requires LESS people than...umm... the 2-3 ELITE ZONES that GW have, in case you wonder.

I'm not gonna talk about WoW's soloability though because it's just too famous. Just go ask your neighbor.

You are completely right I have not played WOW and stated that many times. Also, I will be happy to double check the Blizzard quote from the review for the exact wording and post it here.

However, WOW still does not sound casual. "2-4 hours a day and still cannot get far in raiding", "you are missing raiding content" "You don't have the time to invest, deal with it" None of these statements scream casual to me. How long does it take to complete a heroic dungeon? Is it less than 1-2 hours? I really do not see where you prove that WOW is casual. In fact, you are making my point for me which is: WOW=Not casual like GW is. Two different animals. If I only have an hour or two I can go through XXXX dungeon/area every night if I wanted. I would not want GW to tell me I cannot complete any section of the game at any time. I dont even agree with Favor of the Gods and think it should be removed, I am already paying
1K to get in, making me wait to foster competition or title grinding is not acceptable.

/rant #2
Basically you are telling me that people are paying $200 a year for an 80-90% game. How much of the game is considered "raiding content" People paying for WOW and they cannot experience all the areas! Holy Crap! Call the police! Blizzard making a game with the expectation that xx percent of its customers cannot access/will never see portions of the game is just plain robbery. That should be printed warning in big freaking bold letters on the box!!!! Unless you are hardcore and can "invest" 8 hours a night, you can only play 85% of this game! and it will cost you $200 a year to do it! Here is this great game you have to pay for monthly, but you can only play 80-90% percent of it unless you are Uber LEET. What a freaking racket, give me a peice of that. It really blows my mind people accept this. Blizzard could have taken the 10-20% spent making uber raiding in WOW and made a new ORIGINAL game. I guess they will be able to milk Diablo/Star/WOW forever. Oh well, in the end it is the gamers money they can choose how they spend it. As long as they enjoy the game, more power to them! That is all that really matters, just dont come to anyone later saying you cannot afford other games, need food stamps, can't fix your car, lost your house or "insert sob story here".
/end

Asked both my neighbors neither of them have not heard how famous the soloability is.

OMFG you get locked out of portions of YOUR game also and pay for the privilige!! This keeps getting better and better. ROFL VVVV

Longasc · Feb 10, 2009, 04:30 PM // 16:30

Daily Quests for Faction gain are nice, they can become a daily obligation and a chore sometimes, but they are an interesting idea.

What I never liked in WoW's heroic instances/heroic daily dungeons was the 1-day lockout. It is about as annoying as the 3-7 day reset timers for raid instances. This causes people to take a lot of care with whom they play, as a bad party means you screwed up for one more week or cannot complete the daily heroic. You also cannot help a friend if you already did the dungeon.

Raids are not really a good idea for future MMOs. They are more like a weekly dancing class than playing a game. You need a choreograph, aka raid leader, with solid organizational skills and 9 or 24 other guys who do exactly the right thing. Another bad thing is that one person's mistake usually wipes the raid, while doing exceptionally well cannot compensate for that.

While there are quite a lot of daily quests, there is little variety. You can do the same thing every day, maybe future daily quests in GW2 or other games will be more dynamic and less predictable, updated constantly by an event-staff that... ANet hopefully can afford. They have a "Live Team", after all, too.

Vel · Feb 10, 2009, 05:41 PM // 17:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by zwei2stein

What, so what is the point (go play wow already, lolol)?

Point is question: How would GW play if:

* All elite areas were on one week cooldown. If you kill boss, you have to wait for reset-day to be able to enter again.
* All "elite" items were customized-upon-acquire.
* All dungeons were on 1 day cooldown. Again, boss kill triggering it.
* All reputation factions got major repeatable quest on 1-day timer giving as much as ~1% of max title points.

?

Hmm... if ANET follows your suggestion then GW will become the real OMFG (Obnoxious M* F* Game) that people will hardly ever bother to log in again except for collecting monthly ZKeys.

Please do understand, GW is not intended for a WoW competitor and even close to what WoW is. Its directly opposite of it. So, people paying 1000s of ectos for something shiny and then merching them a few days after have their own brains to decide what is in their best interest to do.

And yes, please go play WoW.

(Could not resist)

zwei2stein · Feb 10, 2009, 05:55 PM // 17:55

Thanks for comments!

(No, I did not in any way meant to suggest GW to clone WoW, but rather to examine how some of its balancing mechanics can be used in game like GW. Conclusion is that it would be fail. Epic one.)

Tullzinski · Feb 10, 2009, 09:35 PM // 21:35

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

In this case, by "finished" they mean getting into the most difficult (stat-wise) end-game raiding instance (Sunwell) and cleared the place.

Here is the exact quote from PC Gamer Feb 2009 page 55. "Distraught that just two percent of WoW's population saw the end of the Black Temple, the final dungeon in TBC, let alone its more difficult cousin (introduced in a later patch) the Sunwell Plateau, Blizzard built on the popularity of accessable instances like heroic dungeons and Karazhan by making every endgame raid available as a 10 or 25 man affair, and they've thrown in various types of badge and rep loot to grind for, too."

So they did NOT mean "getting into the most difficult (stat-wise) end-game raiding instance (Sunwell)" as you tried to say. The reviewer was very specific and this is BLIZZARD saying this. Even less people completed Sunwell from the way the review reads. So approx 200,000 people actually finished TBC. That is really sad. Once again NOT CASUAL. GW is casual by leaps and bounds if held up to WoW.

By reading that paragraph you would think WOW is trying to be more like GW in making their game more accessable to people and more casual.

Cacheelma · Feb 11, 2009, 12:05 AM // 00:05

As a casual player you shouldn't expect to complete EVERYTHING in a game that design for nearly every type of player in mine, hardcore casual w/e, no?

Let me ask, how casual is GW if your aim is to complete everything in it as you'd want in other games (WoW, in this case)?

You take the hardcore aspect of a game and try to make an assumption that this is what the whole game is about. You are wrong. It's a sad and pathetic way to put down a game you never play. Stop it.

I could've pointed out some hardcore aspect of GW to make my point, too. But as one of the biggest x-fanboi I think I knew better.

Tullzinski · Feb 11, 2009, 12:17 AM // 00:17

Quote:

Originally Posted by Cacheelma

As a casual player you shouldn't expect to complete EVERYTHING in a game that design for nearly every type of player in mine, hardcore casual w/e, no?

Let me ask, how casual is GW if your aim is to complete everything in it as you'd want in other games (WoW, in this case)?

You take the hardcore aspect of a game and try to make an assumption that this is what the whole game is about. You are wrong. It's a sad and pathetic way to put down a game you never play. Stop it.

I could've pointed out some hardcore aspect of GW to make my point, too. But as one of the biggest x-fanboi I think I knew better.

Ok I will stop. Have fun playing WOW

Damian Greenthumb · Feb 11, 2009, 11:46 PM // 23:46

Past 2 weeks been playing the beta of Runes of Magic, fail name but pretty
good game. I find the best elements of my fav mmos. PvE/PvP, solo/party, instanced/open world, dailies/raids. Also one helluva good auction house.
Free to download/play. Pay for mounts/xp potions etc. I love GW, all time fav mmo, just need to stretch my legs abit.

Apollo Smile · Feb 12, 2009, 12:19 AM // 00:19

Quote:

Originally Posted by Damian Greenthumb

Past 2 weeks been playing the beta of Runes of Magic, fail name but pretty
good game. I find the best elements of my fav mmos. PvE/PvP, solo/party, instanced/open world, dailies/raids. Also one helluva good auction house.
Free to download/play. Pay for mounts/xp potions etc. I love GW, all time fav mmo, just need to stretch my legs abit.

That is the best way to do it. Variety is the spice of life. I've been playing Guild Wars for over 38 months and I STILL enjoy my time on the game. The reason? I play other games like WoW, Final Fantasy XI, and a ton of DS games. I didn't "LIVE" on Guild Wars like so many others and burn myself out.

Zinger314 · Feb 12, 2009, 02:18 AM // 02:18

WoW has no grind since WotLK.

draxynnic · Feb 12, 2009, 02:36 AM // 02:36

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tullzinski

At this point how many fricking times do I have to kill Diablo for him to stay dead already.

Going on a tangent, the hints I'm seeing regarding Diablo 3 is that it might not necessarily involve Diablo himself, but is instead more related to the wider parts of the franchise (the war between Heaven and Hell and the ramifications of the destruction of the Worldstone).

Furthermore, the Three probably weren't actually destroyed when their soulstones were destroyed, just that they no longer had the power to manifest on Sanctuary through the body of a powerful mortal. It's likely that they simply reformed in the Burning Hells, and since whatever protection was afforded by the Worldstone is now gone, it's possible that it's now even easier for them to send forces to Sanctuary.

In short, once again it seems our achievement in the last game was to jump out of the frying pan... but at least this time it does seem as if we're actually in the fire rather than just a bigger frying pan.

(Personally, I have a suspicion that the replacement for WoW is going to be WoD... D3 is giving me a similar "final ultimate battle" vibe to the leadup to WC3, and we know what happened to the franchise after that...)

FoxBat · Feb 12, 2009, 04:13 AM // 04:13

Quote:

Originally Posted by draxynnic

Going on a tangent, the hints I'm seeing regarding Diablo 3 is that it might not necessarily involve Diablo himself

Diablo is in the freaking cinematic trailer. I don't get why people are still in denial about this since day 1, but the description on the Barbarian figurine they put out confirms it.

And yes, about every time you kill whatever prime evil, you've just nuked the human host. These guys have been around since the dawn of time, their spirit is more or less immortal. You don't just kill Satan for instance.

Pleikki · Feb 12, 2009, 12:00 PM // 12:00

Id like the idea that it would be possible do Elite area only once every week.

Wish Swiftdeath · Feb 12, 2009, 01:26 PM // 13:26

Quote:

Originally Posted by Pleikki

Id like the idea that it would be possible do Elite area only once every week.

and some idiot overaggro's and party wipes?

*lemming* · Feb 12, 2009, 10:07 PM // 22:07

WoW items wouldn't need to bind if they all had the same stats like items do in gw.

draxynnic · Feb 13, 2009, 12:18 PM // 12:18

Quote:

Originally Posted by FoxBat

Diablo is in the freaking cinematic trailer. I don't get why people are still in denial about this since day 1, but the description on the Barbarian figurine they put out confirms it.

And yes, about every time you kill whatever prime evil, you've just nuked the human host. These guys have been around since the dawn of time, their spirit is more or less immortal. You don't just kill Satan for instance.

The majority of my point still stands - this is intended to be the big one, against which the previous ones are just the setup.

Of course, banner advertisements for TFT implied that we'd get a shot at taking down Arthas ("If death couldn't stop him, can you?"), so... yeah.

Akaraxle · Feb 13, 2009, 12:59 PM // 12:59

How about staying true to the original Guild Wars design and not having any grind at all, because it sucks bollocks?